Producer Amy moving to Radio 1 Breakfast

[dstrkzn]

Last night i saw parts of two different programmes on two different channels about the same thing. Scotland and England and in particular the town of Berwick.

In a poll for the Tonight show the people of Berwick voted 60-40 in favour of becoming part of Scotland, although the poll isn't real and has no real effect on anything it does raise the question about relations between Scotland and England.

A major reason behind Berwick residents is the Financial benefits of living north of the border.

The show really seemed to show bitterness from some people towards the benefits of being in Scotland.

Can we live together or are we destined to be Apart?

[Monitorabbit]

I wish they'd stop with these programmes! I've been planning to move to East Kilbride for some time and if the news gets out just how good Scotland is everyone will be flocking there!

[Serin]

From the English viewpoint, Great Britain, the 300-year old union between England and Scotland, was never established with the intention of creating a new national identity (like the USA was some 80 years later) it was created with the sole purpose of emasculating Scotland which might later have allied with France and sought to destroy England.

From the Scottish viewpoint, the failed Darien colony in Central America had effectively bankrupted it. By 1707, Scotland was a very poor nation with a bleak future. The English offer of Union, which would bring with it solvency for Scotland and a role in the growing English (later British) Empire seemed irresistible and the politicians (most of them bribed) of the day, not the Scottish populace, deemed union with England as being potentially worthwhile.

So no, not really united.

[KingTutsWWH]

We really are fortunate to have you and your succinct explanations here on UM Serin.

The fact that Scotland fought for their independence, but had such a healthy economy as a result of their North Sea oil reserves didn't help their cause a great deal either.

Their legal/educational institutions are also way ahead of England's - why do you think I decided to go to Uni up there? It wasn't for the climate...

[sinister]

Shame thatcher wazzed the oil money up the wall in the form of tax breaks for her rich mates instead of investing it in the country though. Is it dead yet?

[iain_smith]

I guess its not the scots fault that they have a better health and education system and generally a better standard of living than the rest of the UK.I guess the enmglish betetr start demanding the same!

[Lucinda]

I guess its not the scots fault that they have a better health and education system and generally a better standard of living than the rest of the UK.I guess the enmglish betetr start demanding the same!

Don't Scottish people have the highest rates of obesity and heart disease in Europe? All those deep fried Mars bars...

We have to pay tuition fees here and pay for prescriptions and all the other unfair things, but I still don't think I'd move to Scotland, it's not worth it.

[Geezer7348]

Don't Scottish people have the highest rates of obesity and heart disease in Europe? All those deep fried Mars bars...

We have to pay tuition fees here and pay for prescriptions and all the other unfair things, but I still don't think I'd move to Scotland, it's not worth it.

Scotland does have one of the highest rates of obesity and heart disease yes, as for the deep fried mars bars they are probably most popular in Glasgow.

As for paying for prescriptions we also have to pay for ours at the moment, I think its around £6.95 per item? thank god I have a medical certificate which cost around £90ish which allows me to get endless prescribed medicines otherwise I would be flat broke by now.

As for tuition fee's I cant really comment as I have never had to pay to attend college/uni. We only charge students for their tuition because we are a commercial company and we do not get any government grants.

[DC]

hardly any such things as 'united' with this country as far as i can see. a lot of scotland want indipendance these days i think, i back them for it before some get the idea of doing what the ira did in the 70's and 80's to us.

[Lucinda]

I think it's Wales where under 25s get free prescriptions or something. I have to pay £6.85 for each one. My mum gets free prescriptions, and I guess we're better off than in the US, because otherwise my mum would have bills of thousands of pounds a year for medication she needs. It still seems weird though that Wales can have things differently like that.

Scottish people don't have to pay tuition fees, but from what I've been hearing, they're starting to suffer funding problems and overcrowding.

[sinister]

There is a slight discrepancy in numbers between the populations of the two nations regarding costs of things like education and health. I'm just not sure it would ever happen, too much defence of the realm stuff as Scotland is in quite a strategic position on the map.

Could someone enlighten me on the economic survival of Scotland going it alone too, I mean the oils nearly gone leaving? Tourism, distillers/breweries......

[Serin]

Public spending per head in Scotland is significantly greater than anywhere else in the UK, that's true.

The 'Barnett formula' was devised to raise living standards through public spending in the 'Celtic fringes' of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and is disproportionately unfair. The formula is based solely on population and doesn't take into account actual need. It was designed to last a mere 12 months, but is still used today, some 40 years later. £22.9 billion is spent in Scotland; £12.4 billion in Wales and £10.1 billion in Northern Ireland annually. The North-East and North-West of England are now poorer than Scotland and every person in Scotland receives £1,000 more per head in public spending than everyone else in England.

In 2001, Joel Barnett called for the formula to be abolished.

Is it dead yet?

Not yet. She's on the 'Who'll be the first celebrity to die in 2008?' sweepstake at work.

[dstrkzn]

Public spending per head in Scotland is significantly greater than anywhere else in the UK, that's true.

Im Almost 100% Certain that is wrong. Northern Ireland has the highest spending. Ill try and find the facts.

And btw i dont know a single person to have ever eaten a Deep Fried Mars Bar.

[Serin]

Im Almost 100% Certain that is wrong. Northern Ireland has the highest spending. Ill try and find the facts.

No, the Northern Irish receive 30% more spending per head compared with the English, but Scotland receives the most public spending overall.

[dstrkzn]

I Might be wrong with this it might not be the same thing i'm not certain...

"Northern Ireland already has the highest level of per capita public spending of any economic region in the UK"

Source

The figures are from 2005 but i cant recall a major change.

[Serin]

After "accounting adjustments" in the official figures, spending per head of population worked out at £7,597 per Scot, or £1,034 more than the UK average. - BBC News, 2006.

[dstrkzn]

Apologies for Using wikipedia here but...

* England £7,121

* Scotland £8,623

* Wales £8,139

* Northern Ireland £9,385

[Serin]

Public spending per head in Scotland is significantly greater than anywhere else in the UK, that's true.

After "accounting adjustments" in the official figures, spending per head of population worked out at £7,597 per Scot, or £1,034 more than the UK average. - BBC News, 2006.

I was speaking of Scotland compared with the per capita UK average.

From central taxation alone, Northern Ireland as a single component of the United Kingdom receives the most public spending per head due in large part to its political problems: maintaining peace and improving its education system. If you removed both elements from the equation, Scotland would (unjustly) come top.

Scotland is the only part of the UK with its own tax-raising powers. It is the only semi-autonomous constituent of the UK, so comparing it with the rest is necessary. Wales, England and Northern Ireland cannot raise their own taxes. You must remember that if the Scottish government added 1p on the basic rate of income tax, it would generate £450 million to spend however it desired. Couple this with north sea oil revenue generated at around £2.8 billion (which isn't actually taken into account and gives an extra £560 per head), Scotland spends the most per head compared with the average for the rest of the UK, which equates to £1,000 more per capita as stated.

From that Wikipedia article:

Lord Barnett himself viewed the formula that he devised as unfair. In The Scotsman in January 2004 he wrote "It was never meant to last this long, but it has gone on and on and it has become increasingly unfair to the regions of England. I didn't create this formula to give Scotland an advantage over the rest of the country when it comes to public funding."

[sinister]

Not yet. She's on the 'Who'll be the first celebrity to die in 2008?' sweepstake at work.

It's been in my dead pool year in year out but the bitch is too stubborn to do the decent thing. State funeral for it, what an outrageous idea, stick it under a dance floor so everyone can have a go I say.

[Riz]

Never have been and never will be a 'United' Kingdom. To go the full way and demand independance though would be a step too far, Scotland would fall off the map.

Whatever side of the border you live in, it both has its perks really.