The eighth floor

[Jono]

Any one would think we're living in the 70s with no buses or trains on Christmas Day and Boxing Day. I'm sure people want to travel around just like any other day. Should there be this availability?

[MaryMary]

I think it s a difficult question - all these services have to be manned, so people will have to work on these days. There are probably plenty of people who would be fine about doing that, but if it became a general thing, you would lose two public holidays because it would become like Sundays have now, just another working day and workers would have no choice about it. Public transport couldnt run solely with volunteers - and even if it could, it wouldn't be possible to administrate on that basis. Its a balance - its the only two days of the year that certain key workers can guarantee to have off, and its an important time for families - i dont think it would be fair to tell buss drivers and train drivers they have to work those 2 days. The country will manage without busses and trains for 2 days, its not like hospitals.

[goldengirl]

I think there should be a skeleton service like every couple of hours cos having nothing gives Taxi Drivers the chance to charge what they like!!! However I have just learnt to drive so this will be the first year ever that it won't affect me

As for people working these days - I worked in my local Golf Club when I was younger and I worked every single Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Day & 2nd Jan from the age of 13 till I was 22 and finished Uni to get a grown up job So people are willing to do it, you just need to pay them accordingly then the decision is theirs.

[DC]

everywhere i need to go i can walk to so there are no worries there. but i am taking my driving lessons now anyway, so when i do drive probably this time next year i wont have a problem. i never need to use the services anyway.

[Jono]

Bah Humbug.

It's just as bad trying to find a bus on a Sunday

[Mike]

ha, i know how you feel jono, one bus an hour here on a sunday... and i live in the town center

[Lucinda]

Christmas day is the only time of the year my local train station is closed - otherwise, it is open 24/7. I think Boxing Day there should be some service but it is fair enough to have 1 day off a year. There are services in London on Boxing Day. On Christmas Day though, nothing runs except the Gatwick Express and Heathrow Express trains.

[jembie]

Well with our current multi-cultural society surely there must be enough people out there that don't celebrate Christmas that can man all the public services.

What about all the Muslim/Sikh/Hindus that work on the buses and trains? I live in a very Asian community and all the local shops are open normal business hours over Christmas. On Christmas day our street is just as busy as any Saturday or indeed Sunday.

[Lucinda]

According to my dad, the nearest station to me is closed on Boxing Day too, but another station nearby is running a stopping service to London Victoria.

I guess some people would call it racist or something if the people who didn't celebrate Christmas had to work on Christmas Day considering it's a public holiday. Local shops can do it because they decide their own opening hours, but public transport companies might get some negative press if they did that.

[MaryMary]

Well with our current multi-cultural society surely there must be enough people out there that don't celebrate Christmas that can man all the public services.

What about all the Muslim/Sikh/Hindus that work on the buses and trains? I live in a very Asian community and all the local shops are open normal business hours over Christmas. On Christmas day our street is just as busy as any Saturday or indeed Sunday.

But its a general public holiday as well as a Christian celebration - the time off is secular - and its the only public holiday of the year which is still pretty much stuck to. Tomake it otherwise would just be a further erosion of social and "family" (not necessarily traditional family, but family nonetheless) values, and honestly, do you really think we can afford any more of that? Whatis it about Muslims and Sikhs which makes it ok to take their public holidays away? And don't be fooled - it would be a general accepted thing within five years if it started now, regardless of any religious consideration. Just because Jono - or someone like him - wants to go somewhere for HIS holiday, someone else has got to go without THEIR holiday!

[Lucinda]

Thinking environmentally though, it isn't good to have everyone crawling around in their cars. It's things like a lack of public transport on Sundays and holidays that a lot of people cite as their reason for never using public transport and that is part of what is ****ing the planet. I went for a walk through the centre of town on Christmas day last year and the roads were gridlock but there was no one walking around and the roads which were for buses and trams only were completely empty.

I agree with MaryMary though, holidays are important, and Christmas is more of a secular cultural holiday nowadays than a religious one, so everyone is entitled to it.

[MaryMary]

And also on the environmental strand, the current situation with the airlines is absolutely brilliant news for the environment! There is no one single activity any person can indulge in which pollutes more per head than flying in an aeroplane. Keep em on the ground, I say!

[Lucinda]

Yeah, they studied the atmosphere after 9/11 when all the planes were grounded and found that the composition of the atmosphere was improved that much even by a couple of days without flying.

All this fog is partly down to pollution, due to the increased condensation nuclei in the atmosphere allowing more water droplets to condense. I have limited sympathy for people who are flying around the country.

"a single transatlantic return flight emits almost half the CO2 emissions produced by all other sources (lighting, heating, car use, etc.) consumed by an average person yearly." - from a site I used last year for A level geography. It's pretty shocking when you think about it that way. I hate how flights are so much cheaper now than trains, it's wrong and they should have more tax to reflect the true environmental impact.

[Olly]

Thinking environmentally though, it isn't good to have everyone crawling around in their cars. It's things like a lack of public transport on Sundays and holidays that a lot of people cite as their reason for never using public transport and that is part of what is ****ing the planet.

Rubbish.

UK motorists only make up 11% of the UK's carbon emissions. It seems that it's just an easy target for 'green' taxes.

Even if everybody in the UK gave up their cars tomorrow, it would make almost no difference to global carbon emissions anyway. It'd probably have the same effect as you trying to lower sea levels by filling up a tea cup.

Some more interesting facts:

If every single SUV owner changed their car for a Toyota Prius Hybrid, the UK's total C02 emissions would decrease by just 0.3%

UK motorists contribute just 0.2% of world carbon emissions

If every single driver in the UK changed their car for a V8 powered Range Rover, world carbon emissions would increase by just 0.2%.

[MaryMary]

Everybody stand up and give Olly a huge round of applause for stating clearly and concisely what the government would rather none of us knew! I am sick and tired of being told, as a householder, consumer and driver, that I am responsible for sorting out pollution and climate change, and all the while global industry and the airline industry in particular get away - literally - with murdering the planet and they don't have to do a damn thing to limit their environmental impact, they just get away with it.

Olly For Prime Minister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DC]

olly dosent know nothing, here is somthing i worked up overnight.

http://www.rit.edu/~stusps/pie.html

can you spot the small error i made though?

well i agree with oliver on that to be honest. what the news and government also seem to be missing is the fact that the earth has changed for 1000's of years anyway, including weather, climate, coasts etc waaaaayyyy before we were here. and it wont stop for us.

[Olly]

well i agree with oliver on that to be honest. what the news and government also seem to be missing is the fact that the earth has changed for 1000's of years anyway, including weather, climate, coasts etc waaaaayyyy before we were here. and it wont stop for us.

Morning ;-)

[MaryMary]

The rate of change has increased dramatically though, we aren't helping - but its not individuals like you and me who are causing the problem, or who will solve it - its global industry. And all the pressure to recycle and cut back and "go green" i nthe world wont make a blind bit of difference unless international governments - China, the far East and the USA in particular - stop pretending that they don't have the responsibility to change things at an industrial, NOT domestic, level.

[DC]

Morning ;-)

now you are just getting weird prime minister.

The rate of change has increased dramatically though, we aren't helping - but its not individuals like you and me who are causing the problem, or who will solve it - its global industry. And all the pressure to recycle and cut back and "go green" i nthe world wont make a blind bit of difference unless international governments - China, the far East and the USA in particular - stop pretending that they don't have the responsibility to change things at an industrial, NOT domestic, level.

i guess it does make a difference if we all do our bit to be honest, there is no reason not to. but the states and china to name but a few have to take note or else we are going green in vein. as soon as they start to take note then we are on a start at least.

[Serin]

Brazil and the USA will become the world's biggest producers of ethanol, which will eventually replace oil as the main fuel of cars.

Oil is going to run out and so we need to start looking at alternatives.

Getting people to use their cars less isn't just about reducing CO2 emissions, it's about conserving as much oil as we can whilst we look for a replacement.

[Olly]

A couple of garages sell E85 (85% Ethanol/15% Unleaded), but it's only 2p/litre less than normal unleaded, and cars that run on it (of which there are about two for sale in the country) are less efficent when using it.

Therefore, it actually costs far more to use - if the government reduced the duty on it, perhaps uptake would be higher?

[Serin]

My argument wasn't about the financial aspect of ethanol. In time, when more is available, the cost, I'm sure, will be significantly reduced.

[Olly]

The other problem is that diesel cars can't run on Ethanol, and I think over 50% of cars sold across Europe are now diesel...

Ethanol isn't really viable as a future fuel source in my opinion.

[Serin]

Then when the oil runs out, which it will, what will you do?

[Olly]

It won't run out, it'll simply become uneconomical to extract.