Rave Up with Arielle Free

[Jono]

We've not had a politics thread for a while. How do you think the existing government is doing - are the spending cuts the right way to kick start the economy?

[DC]

too much too fast, the way to bring things back is to invest. how is sending people out of jobs going to put the money back into the system when they aren't in work to pay tax? whatever comes of it, i know that the rich will be richer by 2015.

[R94N]

I don't really know much about politics and all that but as a student I don't think cutting education funding is a good idea at all.

[cxx666]

To be honest this is a question to which there will never be a proper answer.

There is a recession etc on and everyone from us individuals on here, to our employers, to shops whose services/goods we use, police, NHS, all the way up to the top of government, has to reign in the spending and find better ways of dealing with budgets. Very rarely will anyone find a selection of people who agree on the ways to deal with it. Just before Christmas, 3 friends and I sat were sat in a flat and we got onto how to right the world, and even the 4 of us couldn't agree on what was the best thing to do.

I'm not aware of all the cuts off the top of my head as I deliberately avoid paying much attention to the news. There will be cuts to things which I whole heartedly disagree with but then again there will be cuts which I am absolutely in support of. 2 examples I can think of are; Firstly I refused to sign a petition to stop a community hall thing being closed down as its something I didn't even know existed, let alone used, which as far as I'm concerned means there is absolutely no reason for me to want it to stay open, and no justification in anyone expecting me to want it kept open. Secondly I refused to have anything to do with opposition to cuts in some disability funding thing, again this is something I don't use so I don't feel any urge or duty to be opposed to it being cut back. However there will be people who this DOES affect, whether as an employee of the affected area, or a recipient of its services and they are justified in their feelings towards it.

One thing I feel very strongly about is cuts in benefits, and also cuts in departments which deal with things like roads and maintenance. I have lost count of the amount of money I have had to fork out due to my car being damaged by the disgusting state of the roads in parts of the UK. For several weeks over December and January, part of the road a minute or two away from my house was a sea of deep potholes and this is not only expensive for those of us who have had our cars damaged by this kind of thing, but also dangerous to anyone who is unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident as a result of the poor state of a road, and thats before I hit the main road! Any cuts in spending on the upkeep and repair of roads we use is not on at all.

I also fail to see why so much is handed out in benefits. I am sure I have said this before, but I'll say it again incase I haven't or it has been missed. I have a friend who has just moved out of a very very nice flat (I've not seen the one she is now moving into), which is paid for by the tax payer (she is of the opinion that the council/government pays a portion of the rent and she has to pay the rest, but she doesn't work so "her" money is really just other benefits she gets handed). "Why is this paid for by us, the tax payer?" I hear you ask. Well that is simple, she got herself knocked up as a teenager and because of the flawed nature of what is considered right and wrong in this country, she landed on her feet with everything bought and paid for. Yes give something to those who are PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of doing some form of work, but come on! It absolutely sickens me whenever I hear of people getting handouts when they don't deserve it at all. I used to know a family who lived on benefit, mum, 2 daughters and a son in law all getting something for nothing. Apparently the mum had a medical condition which meant she couldn't work, the 2 daughers were fully grown adults and had got into the routine of not working either, and 1 of their husbands tried to get out of doing work as well by faking depression so he got benefits. Those 2 have at least 2 children together now so god only knows the example they're being set as well. Mabey its just me, but I think those of us who go out and earn a wage should have a far better quality of life than those who sit on their arse all day thinking the social will take care of everything, not the other way around.

This might not quite have been the right place for me to vent my anger at these sort of things, but back to the question. Do I agree with spending cuts? Some of them yes, some of them no, but there is also another question I pose; How do we expect a government to come up with spending cuts that people are a lot happier about, when the government itself is made up of 2 sets of people who have very differn't ideas of how the country should be run?!?!?

[kyle_y]

too much too fast, the way to bring things back is to invest. how is sending people out of jobs going to put the money back into the system when they aren't in work to pay tax? whatever comes of it, i know that the rich will be richer by 2015.

This.

[Viv]

We've not had a politics thread for a while. How do you think the existing government is doing - are the spending cuts the right way to kick start the economy?

A resounding NO from me. And this Government can go f*** itself. The Conservatives historically took from the poor to line the pockets of the rich, and NOTHING has changed. They will never get the vote in Scotland. NEVER.

[Viv]

CXX666 : Mabey its just me, but I think those of us who go out and earn a wage should have a far better quality of life than those who sit on their arse all day thinking the social will take care of everything, not the other way around.

Viv: Not everyone who is unemployed wishes to have their hand held. I blame the media for the hatred right now against unemployed people. Whilst agree with you about these girls getting deliberately knocked up, and thinking they've got it all sorted, no everyone who is unemployed sits on their arse, watches Jeremy Kyle and drinks themselves into oblivion.

Some people are trying very hard to get back into work whilst the competition is so fierce, they simply cannot do so.

Also, here is another point. My local council are apparently thinking of putting libraries into schools, to save on Heating Bills, whilst, at the same time, THIS GOVERNMENT sends long-term unemployed people to training providers MILES AWAY, costing hundreds and hundreds of pounds of TAX PAYERS MONEY PER WEEK, when they could be searching for employment in their own LOCAL LIBRARY.

Senseless doesn't even cover this.

I am so angry I've torn a section of my hair out now.

THIS. GOVERNMENT. DOES. NOT. KNOW. WHAT. TO. DO. (pure and simple). And, if you tune into R4's Politics Programme (Any Questions - Saturdays at 1:05 pm), you will hear the Conservative guests whine on and on about the "legacy" they inherited.

Well, you took the "legacy" and made it 10 times worse, assholes.

I'd actually love to get involved in politics, but I think I would get so angry about the injustices, I would be bloody dangerous.

[cxx666]

The Conservatives historically took from the poor to line the pockets of the rich, and NOTHING has changed. They will never get the vote in Scotland. NEVER.

Don't be so sure about that. I made the mistake of discussing politics with friends in the run up to the elections and the 3 of us were all voting differnt ways. One of them made it crystal clear who she was voting for and was more than happy to ram the argument down my throat to the point where I had a headache later that day. Fortunately the other one kept quieter about their opinion, stated who they were voting for and left the pair of us to go back to our argument. The other problem here is we don't just have the big 3 but we're got the SNP trying to muscle in on things and screw everything up so its even harder to get a descent say in whats what.

[Viv]

On the evening the three politicians: Clegg, Cameron and Brown went up against each other, Mr Gordon Brown was quite adamant about not cutting too far, too fast ..... because Cameron simply does not have the money or a stable economy to back up all his welfare reform ideas. When the Welfare to Work programmes are brought into force in the Summer, I am predicting mass demonstrations on the streets.....

I was speaking to someone (unemployed) last Friday who tells me he has been pretty much forced to apply for a job which is 17.5 hours per week.... this will force him into full rent / council tax, so effectively he's gonna get a job, but lose his home, cos he ain't gonna be able to pay the bills.

Welcome to our Government today, people!!

I am sure more and more people are realising we have made a BIG MISTAKE in letting those Conservatives get to power, and ONLY this country could possibly vote a Government in by accident anyway.

[MrDoovdeHaxorz]

Agreed with Viv on the point about the Unemployed, having struggled so much before having to settle for a bare minimum wage job (very much down on what I COULD get given a freakin chance) I know what a struggle that is and as such sympathise with the honest genuine jobseekers. Especially given that the honest ones like myself are often the ones the Jobcentre harass to 'prove' what they're doing while you can just LOOK at a crowd in a jobcentre and tell which chavvy little s***s are lying through their teeth every sign-in day and getting away with it because the pr**ks that the jobcentre employs can't be bothered to do the paperwork involved in catching an actual benefit cheat (much of which is probably pointless red tape, as it usually is with such government agencies). It quite frankly sickens me even now as there is a jobcentre opposite my workplace now and I still see the crowds outside and can pick out the genuine jobseekers a mile off.

aaaaaand breathe.

If we have demonstrations, all that will achieve judging by the last lot is exposing police corruption and needless brutality against random victims (most of whom are protesting PEACEFULLY) and undercover police officers infiltrating the crowds and being the main instigators of any actual violence.

Another point on whining about the 'Legacy left by the last government', I believe Barack Obama also did that when he got into power. Differences here though are that Bush left him a hell of a lot worse mess than Blair/Brown left CleggCam, and that he's actually DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT after a small amount of whining (which stopped very quickly).

[kyle_y]

A resounding NO from me. And this Government can go f*** itself. The Conservatives historically took from the poor to line the pockets of the rich, and NOTHING has changed. They will never get the vote in Scotland. NEVER.

And this is why we can't give Scotland independence. Because it screws over England, Wales and Northern Ireland. We need Scotland to prevent (or make it considerably harder) for the Tories to get a British majority.

[DC]

i think the rebuilt labour will whitewash the conservatives and lib dems come the next election. if you look at recent opinion, people are starting to realise that letting the media brainwash them into voting against labour was a mistake. clegg and the lib dems are finished, but the current tory front bench will walk away richer men. it's just a worry that there won't be anything left for labour to work with come 2015, most of it will be destroyed.

[Jono]

Opinion polls for Labour are very healthy as you say considering the party is struggling with direction at the moment (naturally though having lost an election). I can't believe people are buying the guff about the "blank sheet of paper" business - Cameron didn't shout about any policies until months before the election and most of that he's gone back on anyway!

Someone said the other day that Cameron will try to push as much as he can through this term of parliament because he won't be around in 2015 so will want to succeed in doing as much of his plans as possible. I agree with that sentiment - I think he won't win another election.

[MrDoovdeHaxorz]

It's not great that it's taken Cameron's cronies to show us that Labour weren't actually all that bad... however I WILL say they needed to get rid of Blair and Brown, as well as a lot of the 'New Labour' stuff. Hopefully the changes in the Shadow Cabinet and general leadership will help.

[Jono]

The bank levy just doesn't seem to go far enough.

[E*F*4L]

i agree with some of the cuts, basically in the civil service, because what Labour did instead of creating proper jobs what they did was make up jobs in the public sector as it's easy to do especially in their heartlands, look how many of those so called Soviet style towns & city's there are,

NEARLY three-fifths of the growth in jobs under Labour during a decade in power was directly or indirectly created by the state, new research shows.

Across the country as a whole, it says 57% of new jobs created during the period 1997-2007 were state or “para-state†— dependent on government spending

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article7009695.ece

this simply couldn't continue, also the population hadn't gone up enough to have need for these jobs anyway.

Gordon Brown knows sod all about economics, first he announced that he was going to diversify the UK's assets by selling our gold reserves, which makes the gold market go into free-fall thus our gold is sold for half it's original value, he is just as much to blame for getting us into this mess as Tony Blair & George Bush + Wall Street are.

the reason the ConDem's are having to make all these cuts lie squarely with Labour.

i do think some of the cuts are wrong though like the Police & NHS for example, the one area that the government have not cut, which i think should be cut to zero is the overseas development budget, further more the money that went to Ireland, i cannot remember the guys name but just before Labour got voted out some fool signed a piece of paper saying that the UK would contribute to any EU bailout fund, oh right i see we borrow money at a rate of 3% then lend the money to Ireland at a rate or 5'ish% & hope we get it back, i would simply have overruled this.

all the parties are to blame for hiding the truth about the UK debt, because the one trillion we owe, 80% of it is for the debt that we brought from the banks, so all this "when the banks are sold we will make a profit" are wrong because lets say that RBS had a debt burden of £200 billion, which we (you & i) now own, but when the bank is sold how much will it be sold for ? a couple of billion that's how much because we have wiped the slate clean, what the government should do is go after the people who's fault it is & basically bankrupt them, then jail them, but all the parties are to blame for these lies.

the ConDems are wrong to think that the private sector can pick up the pieces or even David's "BIG SOCIETY" will fill the void, i don't have enough time to do things for the community for free when i have to go out to work, at the end of the day the people responsible should be the ones that pay the price, "where there's blame there's a claim" that was Labour's motto.

don't get me started on the VAT increase either, this year is going to be worse than last year that's for sure & no matter what the 'Bank of Rothschild' sorry England do nor what George Osbourne does because a double-dip is inevitable, it could even be a good thing, but the fact remains that money always leads to money & that's why all the banks are making record profits.

i think Labour are right in some ways that the cuts are to fast & to deep, but in the end it's their fault & if the party had any spine at all they would admit as much so, instead of spinning out lies to cover their ass.

at the end of the day the public sector is to big & they have had it to good for to long & it's time for them to live in the real world for a change.