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Student protest over proposed tuition fee increase


kyle_y

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I was surprised to see there was no thread on the recent student protest, so I have taken it upon myself to rectify this. As I'm sure you all know, the protest started peacefully, as planned, but eventually turned quite nasty and violent with buildings being vandalised and Millbank Tower, which houses Conservative Party HQ, was trashed and occupied with students reportedly throwing objects including a fire extinguisher off the roof. My friend who was caught up amongst it all said it was nothing but a "straight up riot".

The protest was organised by a legitmate and recognised organisation, and was for a legitimate cause - but will support be lost as a result of the violence and damage caused? Is this the start of a large number of protests and riots against the coalition Government in a 'winter of discontent'? Is this the only way to receive airtime and publicity for your cause? Are violent protests and mass/co-ordinated riots a legitimate way of expressing disapproval of our politicians and their actions? Do the Government, the Lib Dems in particular, have anything to fear?

What are your views? :)

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It didn't really turn nasty en masse, was once again a small minority of the crowd causing trouble but the majority being tagged as troublemakers.

Why can't they destroy the offices of the Sun or the Daily Fail instead?

Also riots have resulted in changes for the better in other countries, we had anti-Iraq war protests (of which I attended 2) in 2002-2003 etc which were peaceful and got exactly sweet f*** all done in terms of getting that warmongering idiot Bush Lapdog known as Tony Blair to notice what his country actually wants...

Professional eater of puppy dogs, baby heads and killer of grannies...

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(going to have to be careful here with the likes of MI5 sneaking about)

i don't have a problem with what they did, peaceful protesting doesn't get anywhere in the end.

kill & murder people in the UK & you get tea & biscuits with the PM (Tony Blair) that's what the IRA did, be a leader of a organization that killed & bombed places & you get lorded about as one of the greatest humans to have ever lived Nelson Mandela, both got their way, (i am NOT saying or suggesting that the protesters should kill people, i am using a example of violent protests that have succeed in the goals set out by the perpetrators)

in contrast Tenzin Gyatso (14th Dalai Lama) & Aung San Suu Kyi have got nowhere,

the only exception is Mahatma Gandhi but he galvanised the people because his ideology was what everyone wanted.

i don't condone people attacking the police, however the police are supposed to 'protect & serve' (i no longer believe this).

some people say "the pen is mightier than the sword" others say "actions speak louder than words"

this got everyone's attention (extreme example i know)

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at the end of the day, it is pointless the students protesting because nothing is going to change, the fees are going to to up.

:)

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expect more of this over the next 4 and a half years. if it were a peaceful demonstration then it wouldn't of even have gotten on the pro-tory media outlets, which are most. that said, the bell end chucking the fire extinguisher from the roof should be locked up for 20 years.

on the grid.

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the guy that threw the fire extinguisher should get the same sentence as the policman who pushed over Ian Tomlinson who later died in hospital.

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The police officer caught on video during last year's G20 protests striking a man who later died will not face criminal charges, the Crown Prosecution Service announced today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/22/ian-tomlinson-police-not-charged

the fire extinguisher didn't hit or injure anyone so there is no charge to face.

:)

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  • 3 weeks later...
I was surprised to see there was no thread on the recent student protest, so I have taken it upon myself to rectify this. As I'm sure you all know, the protest started peacefully, as planned, but eventually turned quite nasty and violent with buildings being vandalised and Millbank Tower, which houses Conservative Party HQ, was trashed and occupied with students reportedly throwing objects including a fire extinguisher off the roof. My friend who was caught up amongst it all said it was nothing but a "straight up riot".

The protest was organised by a legitmate and recognised organisation, and was for a legitimate cause - but will support be lost as a result of the violence and damage caused? Is this the start of a large number of protests and riots against the coalition Government in a 'winter of discontent'? Is this the only way to receive airtime and publicity for your cause? Are violent protests and mass/co-ordinated riots a legitimate way of expressing disapproval of our politicians and their actions? Do the Government, the Lib Dems in particular, have anything to fear?

What are your views? :)

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> When students demonstrate in the streets there are always infiltrators to cause violence to discredit a genuine grievance. This allows the police and the Government to take together measures against those that are demonstrating and the focus is on the violence not on the abusive increase of fees which will deter many students from going to university or pursuing further education. Sittings and demonstrations in college and universities always get hijack by political parties causing ideological divisions and ending solidarity for a common cause. This is the way injustice by governments was dealt with in the last century. The agencies of control are experts dealing with these situations because this is the way we have always responded to similar issues. Fighting weakens people’s power and makes them inefficient.

Explore what would happen if students, teachers and admin staff stay away from the university or colleges for indefinite period of time and universities became ghost buildings - What would the government do? And the police? they would be wondering what all these thousands of students were doing they could not get to you individually in your homes. What would happen if you did not read the newspapers or watch the television, how they will get to you when you close all the avenues of control.

This is the way to exercise your power. Remember the real power is inside you not outside you. What we call the power of the government, the power of police and other institutions is not power, it is force, manipulation and coercion. When you truly exercise your inner power you become strong - the agencies of control become weak. SOLIDARITY is unity - watch the students that try to wave the flags of their political parties - they are just trying to make a name for themselves and gain a little bit of power even when they are honest because they do not know better remember that one can also be honestly wrong.

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> When students demonstrate in the streets there are always infiltrators to cause violence to discredit a genuine grievance. This allows the police and the Government to take together measures against those that are demonstrating and the focus is on the violence not on the abusive increase of fees which will deter many students from going to university or pursuing further education. Sittings and demonstrations in college and universities always get hijack by political parties causing ideological divisions and ending solidarity for a common cause. This is the way injustice by governments was dealt with in the last century. The agencies of control are experts dealing with these situations because this is the way we have always responded to similar issues. Fighting weakens people’s power and makes them inefficient.

Explore what would happen if students, teachers and admin staff stay away from the university or colleges for indefinite period of time and universities became ghost buildings - What would the government do? And the police? they would be wondering what all these thousands of students were doing they could not get to you individually in your homes. What would happen if you did not read the newspapers or watch the television, how they will get to you when you close all the avenues of control.

This is the way to exercise your power. Remember the real power is inside you not outside you. What we call the power of the government, the power of police and other institutions is not power, it is force, manipulation and coercion. When you truly exercise your inner power you become strong - the agencies of control become weak. SOLIDARITY is unity - watch the students that try to wave the flags of their political parties - they are just trying to make a name for themselves and gain a little bit of power even when they are honest because they do not know better remember that one can also be honestly wrong.

Were you one of the guys handing out leaflets for the Socialist Workers Party? :P

On a more serious note, it seems that protests and riots are gonna become the norm throughout the life of this government. There was a riot in Lewisham earlier this week at the town hall during a meeting on council service and job cuts, and they'll be many more like this. This winter won't be too bad, but once the cuts really begin to bite we'll all really experience a winter of discontent this time next year. If this is what it takes to get our voices heard, even if the government continue to ignore us, then this is what needs to be done - although I can't condone any sort of violence against individuals (including the police) or personal property.

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the banks are not in profit, only the ones that didn't receive a bail-out are.

as for violent protests not working etc, they do just ask Nelson Mandela :)

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:)

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I think the police should be allowed to basically machine gun down these selfish moronic f*ckwits.

The economy is in a bad way, and like it or not, we are all having to face up to the countrys bank balance. Goods and services cost more. Insurance, housing, motoring, and basic living costs are all going up. For the majority of us, wages aren't really going up to reflect this increased cost in living, and taxes are going up anyway.

Nobody has to be in education past high school, those who choose to go off into further education are there because they want to do it. We all have things in life we would like to do, but if its too expensive for us, generally we just have to accept it and either put it on the back burner till we have the money to do it, or forget about it altogether. Why the hell should students somehow be immune from this element of life?!

Not impressed with censorship

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I think the police should be allowed to basically machine gun down these selfish moronic f*ckwits.

Ahhh, you're a fan of the communist regimes of North Korea, China etc.? The police can't be trusted with batons let alone machine guns FGS, but if that's what it takes to bring down this Government, then I'm all for the police shooting down the selfish moronic f*uckwits that are Clegg and Cameron.

The economy is in a bad way, and like it or not, we are all having to face up to the countrys bank balance. Goods and services cost more. Insurance, housing, motoring, and basic living costs are all going up. For the majority of us, wages aren't really going up to reflect this increased cost in living, and taxes are going up anyway.

Wait a minute, I thought you were a communist..

While I understand that students should have to contribute to their own university education, their education is beneficial to everyone in society and the economy as a whole. Cutting university funding by up to 100% is just stupid. Completely stupid. Expecting students to pay up to £9000 a year for this education is just as ridiculous. Whether the economy is in a bad way or not, cutting funding for those who will pay a lot more than that funding is worth in tax contributions throughout their working life isn't fair. Expecting those students to pay 100% of the cost of that education because the Government can't be arsed to anymore certainly isn't fair. Restricting the life chances of the less fortunate and poorest certainly isn't fair. Cutting university funding by up to 100% this year and then having students make up the difference from 2 years time leaving universities with no funding whatsoever for the year inbetween is most certainly not fair. But then again, the Conservatives have never been about fairness. As Cameron admitted himself, he and Osborne are 'children of Thatcher'.

A good way of facing up to the country's bank balance would be to continue to invest for the immediate future so jobs are created in both the public and private sectors, and then once we have recovered begin to make the slight cuts that will half the deficit over the following few years.

Making drastic cuts like a madman with an axe does fuck all to help anyone. It means people lose their jobs, lose their incomes, take money from the Government in benefits, not give money to the Government in terms of taxes they're no longer paying due to not having an income, not spending money so that the Treasury then get less in VAT receipts etc etc.

Where Conservative-style cuts may mean you're spending less in many ways, we'll only end up spending a hell of a lot more when it comes to funding the bottomless pit (in the sense that there's no limit to how many people get benefits, all those who need it get everything they're entitled to) that are benefit claimants; while at the same time the Government is getting less and less in tax receipts which will leave the economy in a worse state like it or not!

Nobody has to be in education past high school, those who choose to go off into further education are there because they want to do it. We all have things in life we would like to do, but if its too expensive for us, generally we just have to accept it and either put it on the back burner till we have the money to do it, or forget about it altogether. Why the hell should students somehow be immune from this element of life?!

I assume you were of the generation who had their university education paid for in full through Government grants, right?

the banks are not in profit, only the ones that didn't receive a bail-out are.

I'm sure Northern Rock posted profits a while back.

as for violent protests not working etc, they do just ask Nelson Mandela :)

Sometimes violent protests are necessary, but only as a last resort. Nelson Mandela's imprisonment and the South African apartheid are examples of that.

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I assume you were of the generation who had their university education paid for in full through Government grants, right?

I didn't go to university. Despite how much it was drummed into me at school that further education was apparently the most important thing in the world and should be my number 1 priority, I decided it wasnt and when I left high school I went out and found work.

Not impressed with censorship

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I think the police should be allowed to basically machine gun down these selfish moronic f*ckwits.

haven't the police been responsible for enough this year already, raping women, shooting a person to death, killing a innocent man, assaulting a women, these are just the few that have been reported, just think about all the other ones that haven't been reported on, oh & yes all the ones above (except the rape) the police officer has been found not guilty !

I'm sure Northern Rock posted profits a while back.

ah which part though ;)

Sometimes violent protests are necessary, but only as a last resort. Nelson Mandela's imprisonment and the South African apartheid are examples of that.

Mandela did it from the start, he ran the ANC from his prison cell, i am NOT saying that apartheid or racism is ok or right this isn't the issue, the point is that Mandela used violence & got what he wanted just like many other terrorists, IRA & Al-Qaeda are two other examples.

:)

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Mandela did it from the start, he ran the ANC from his prison cell, i am NOT saying that apartheid or racism is ok or right this isn't the issue, the point is that Mandela used violence & got what he wanted just like many other terrorists, IRA & Al-Qaeda are two other examples.

Mandela - yeah, okay. Terrorism paid off in that case and soon after he became president of SA. Not sure about the IRA though. They didn't really achieve their aim as they had to compromise on many of the things they were fighting for, and now many of the leaders in the terrorism movement are now politicians and leading major legitimate political parties in ROI and NI.

But Al Qaeda? Their terrorism is stopping the Americans from winning, but they are far from winning themselves. And I somehow doubt Bin Laden will be a leading politician in Pakistan or Afghanistan :P

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Mandela - yeah, okay. Terrorism paid off in that case and soon after he became president of SA. Not sure about the IRA though. They didn't really achieve their aim as they had to compromise on many of the things they were fighting for, and now many of the leaders in the terrorism movement are now politicians and leading major legitimate political parties in ROI and NI.

But Al Qaeda? Their terrorism is stopping the Americans from winning, but they are far from winning themselves. And I somehow doubt Bin Laden will be a leading politician in Pakistan or Afghanistan :P

"major legitimate political parties in ROI and NI" really !

who made the biggest compromises ?

look how many killers were released under the Good Friday agreement, look how the USA supported the IRA & allowed people in the USA to fund them & refused to extradite suspects to the UK,

just how many freedoms have been taken away from US citizens (sheeple) since 9th November 2001 (9/11)

how about this for example ?

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WHEELCHAIR-BOUND Tammy Banovac arrived at an airport stripped to her undies in a protest over security searches.

But despite being nearly naked, her search still took more than an hour - and she missed her flight.

Furious Tammy, 52, said she felt "violated" after an earlier security search at Oklahoma airport.p

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/2010/12/03/disabled-woman-strips-to-bra-and-knickers-in-protest-at-airport-security-checks-86908-22759033/

having to go through full body scanners or subjected to body searches that if anyone else did it other than <s>perverts </s> sorry i meant security officers, would be charged with sexual assault

“There are about 350 full-body scanners being used in close to 70 U.S. airports, and that number is expected to increase to 1,000 scanners by the end of 2011.

Dubbed “naked” scanners because they give a graphic image of your body, including genitalia and other personal effects like sanitary napkins, the devices are raising privacy and health concerns among frequent travelers and pilots groups alike.

The alternative is also causing outrage. Those who opt out of being scanned must now submit to a far more intrusive form of pat-down, and a large number of horror stories have already surfaced, where people of all ages have been humiliated, or worse, during these ‘enhanced’ pat-downs….

http://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/full-body-airport-scanners-and-airport-body-searches-are-an-invasion-of-your-human-rights-bordering-on-child-molestation-and-sexual-assault/

or read this letter to the Disney Corporation http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/krolman1.1.1.html

Robert A. Iger

President & C.E.O.

Walt Disney Co.

500 South Buena Vista Street

Burbank, CA 91521

Dear Mr. Iger,

I am writing for your advice about how to best enjoy a great Walt Disney World experience with the new prohibitive TSA/commercial airlines "security" shenanigans.

My wife and I have two children (one strapping 14 year old boy and our beautiful little girl, 12). They would just love to go to Disney World and we would love to take them – but now we don't know how to get there!

Please allow me to graphically explain. On the way to Disney World at the airport, United States government agents now force children and their parents to make a difficult choice between:

1. a dose of ionizing radiation concentrated almost entirely on your skin to create a nude image on the government's computer screen. They call this Whole Body Imaging, or WBI. Please see attached sample image of a male subject, also here. Note that the detail of the image, even before zooming in, allows the viewer to see that the glans is uncircumcised.

2. a government agent using his gloved fingers to grope/frisk/probe the exterior of the child's entire clothed body (including inspection of private parts) in order to ascertain the same detail of information as the WBI would have done (see above). They call this Enhanced Pat-down.

3. police escort to interrogation by TSA security as to your reasons for refusing the above two choices...followed by confirmation that you did not verbally abuse any government agents...followed by being permitted to turn around and go home.

As you can imagine, none of these choices appeals to us. Other than a fleet of Disney private planes or opening scaled-down Disney World resorts all across the country, how do you recommend that paying customers get to your resorts if decent caring for their children now prohibits them from using commercial airlines?

Now that you are aware that children must submit to nude photography or inspection of private parts in order to enjoy the Disney experience (and on the way home), your silence on this issue may be seen by many as passive agreement with this new pathway to your business, which I am sure is not the case.

Please confirm.

Regards,

Arthur M.M. Krolman

CFA Founder and President

Krolman Corporation

56 Roland St., Suite 201 Boston, MA 02129

now tell me who is wining Al Qaeda or the US government ?

:)

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"major legitimate political parties in ROI and NI" really !

who made the biggest compromises ?

look how many killers were released under the Good Friday agreement, look how the USA supported the IRA & allowed people in the USA to fund them & refused to extradite suspects to the UK,

just how many freedoms have been taken away from US citizens (sheeple) since 9th November 2001 (9/11)

how about this for example ?

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zFi18ioqYk?fs=1&hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zFi18ioqYk?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

having to go through full body scanners or subjected to body searches that if anyone else did it other than <s>perverts </s> sorry i meant security officers, would be charged with sexual assault

or read this letter to the Disney Corporation http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/krolman1.1.1.html

now tell me who is wining Al Qaeda or the US government ?

I think I agree with most, if not all, the points you made but I do think they are major legitimate political parties. Sinn Fein, DUP and UUP and the likes of Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley. Agree with their politics or not they are pretty mainstream in the areas they represent.

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Student anger about tuition fees rises is not simply about the Liberal Democrat MP’s pledge u-turns or the fact that fees could triple. It is also about the arrogant stance the coalition has taken in order to wrap the issue up before Christmas.

To suggest we are selfish is simply wrong. We're fighting for a future generation of students. It won't hurt us when these proposals come through. It will hurt those who start university from 2012.

We are angry, rather than taking the burden off the taxpayer, we are simply filling the gap for the cut in funding for teaching.

Labour believes £16bn will be added to the national debt when these loans kick in and the Tories have even admitted this is not a deficit reduction technique but another “reform”.

The author of these changes, Vince Cable, could still not provide the answers to the questions that matter in the House of Commons on Tuesday:

  • What constitutes an exceptional circumstance to increase the charge to £9,000 a year?
  • Why is the £21,000 repayment figure based on figures in 2016 and not today’s finance?
  • Why have they ignored Lord Browne’s advice to provide more grants to middle income students?
  • Why will some students with a maintenance loan pay back 84% of their earnings a year as top earners only pay back half?
  • Why are none of the benefits for poorer students not being included in the overall bill that will be voted on this Thursday? How can we trust after Christmas they'll keep their word on anything they proposing when that crucial vote goes through?

Not only will these proposals mean we will have some of the highest university fees in the world, we will also be the only other OEDC country to cut university spending (other than Romania). It is feared arts and science courses will take the biggest brunt of this as funding is unequally shared.

The Lib Dems say students will pay back less than they do under existing proposals – but – 75% will now pay it back for longer knowing interest rates will be raised too. There is also no certainty the goal posts will not change again.

Furthermore, the business department has stated in a report last week that there could be a "negative impact" on part-time studies as a result of these changes.

Vince Cable once stated that tuition fees were “like the poll tax” and were an “unfair weight around students’ necks”. Nick Clegg branded any rise in fees a “disaster”.

There is no evidence to suggest this will not put off students despite the claims from Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. Until they can prove it, why keep suggesting it? Opinion polls suggest the contrary.

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some of you may have seen this via jono's twitter, if you haven't

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angrysmilymob.gif

:)

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One of the main buildings at my uni has been occupied since the day of the first student protest. Nearly a month on they're still camping there, causing chaos for timetablers and all those who have/had scheduled meetings or lectures there, but its all for a good cause. Apparently it's quite civil there with elections being held for roles such as press officer and head of security, and with quiet areas for study and even a smoking room in complete disregard to the law.

Us students, eh? ;)

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i wonder if this will be happening to Nick tomorrow if a bunch of students get hold of him ?

i could just see Jono dancing around it :woo:

<object width="480" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/x6sei7?width=&theme=none&foreground=%23F7FFFD&highlight=%23FFC300&background=%23171D1B&start=&animatedTitle=&iframe=0&additionalInfos=0&autoPlay=0&hideInfos=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video/x6sei7?width=&theme=none&foreground=%23F7FFFD&highlight=%23FFC300&background=%23171D1B&start=&animatedTitle=&iframe=0&additionalInfos=0&autoPlay=0&hideInfos=0" width="480" height="360" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6sei7_the-wicker-man-is-my-god_fun">The Wicker Man Is My God</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/stevanhogg">stevanhogg</a>. - <a target="_self" href="http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/channel/fun">Click for more funny videos.</a></i>

* i do NOT endorse nor promote or even advise the setting of fire to people :)

:)

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